As many of you probably know, Freud and Jung had quite an intense relationship. Freud apparently had a pattern of getting into idolizing father-son relationships, and then having dramatic breakups with them. I notice that of his psychosexual stages, Freud seemed to have been most interested in the phallic stage (Oedipal complex), which is the most Daddy-son-centric of them.

What I did not know was that Freud dramatically fainted in Jung's presence, and Jung carried him to a couch! And that this happened not once, but several times! (Freud was apparently given to fainting - a classic "hysterical" symptom - during intense emotional encounters.)

The first time, Jung was discussing mummies. Freud demanded to know why Jung was going on and on about corpses, then fainted. Upon waking, Freud accused Jung of having a death wish for Freud.

Later, Jung was lecturing about how Egyptian pharoahs would scratch out their fathers' names on monuments, and replace them with their own. Freud promptly fainted again.

It's hard not to give all that a Freudian interpretation: Freud thought that Jung, his son-figure, was trying to usurp Daddy's role as the head of the psychoanalytic family. When confronted with that idea, or with the thought of Jung wishing him dead so Jung could replace him, Freud ensured that he didn't have to think about it by passing out.

Alternatively or additionally, Freud was in love with Jung. Freud himself discussed the possibility of repressed homosexual feelings.

Robert King suggests, Twice placing Freud on a couch after a faint was consistent with Jung's wish to be Freud's analyst as well his analysand.

King (google books)

Freud A-Z (google books)
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movingfinger: (Default)

From: [personal profile] movingfinger


Twice placing Freud on a couch after a faint was consistent with Jung's wish to be Freud's analyst as well his analysand.

...because the normal thing to do with a fainting person is leave them on the hearthrug and throw a pitcher of cold water at them?
staranise: A star anise floating in a cup of mint tea (Default)

From: [personal profile] staranise


Freud's total inability to maintain a mentor-student dyad is positively fascinating, and actually seems to be a lot like splitting ("You are my HOPE FOR THE FUTURE"/"You are a scum on the face of psychoanalysis!").
wordweaverlynn: (therapy)

From: [personal profile] wordweaverlynn

As usual, I have the perfect icon


Especially significant given Freud's own use of the Oedipal myth, in which he sees the son desiring his mother and killing his father -- but skips the first part of the story, in which the father tries to kill the son (and gives the infant the crippling wound from which the boy takes his name). Freud is in total denial about the murderous father, just as he is about the phallic cigars that ultimately killed him.

Moreover, Freud gloried in his place as his mother's acknowledged favorite child. Anna, the daughter who followed him into psychiatry, was a lesbian -- which a Freudian might read as being unwilling to replace her father with another man.

Do you know about Lou Andreas-Salome? Now she was an interesting woman. Harnessed Nietzsche to a cart and flourished a whip. (Really. There are photographs.) Caused a certain amount of sexual competition among the earliest psychoanalysts.

From: [identity profile] tool-of-satan.livejournal.com


Dunno about Yuletide but a quick search convinces me there is Freud/Jung fic (which I decline to click on at work).

Your long links are playing hob with at least some LJ layouts, BTW - maybe put them behind a cut?

From: [identity profile] oneminutemonkey.livejournal.com


And all I can think of, is that there was a character named Jung Freud in the classic anime, Gunbuster. :)

From: [identity profile] tool-of-satan.livejournal.com


I buy your analysis but am skeptical of King's assertion. I mean, yes, it could be true, but putting someone on a couch after they faint could just mean that Jung is considerate.

My poorly-informed impression is that Freud had intense relationships with a number of men. Look up Wilhelm Fliess if you want some really juicy material. (I think I read about him in Martin Gardner's Fads and Fallacies.)

From: [identity profile] sovay.livejournal.com


What I did not know was that Freud dramatically fainted in Jung's presence, and Jung carried him to a couch!

Why do you not write said fiction yourself?

From: [identity profile] kore-on-lj.livejournal.com


....seriously? AHAHAHAHAHA.

//has harbored hatred for Freud ever since being forced to read Dora at SJC

(Apparently this amused me so much I at first commented to the wrong post.)

From: [identity profile] rachelmanija.livejournal.com


I have to say, I find Freud-the-person more interesting than Freud-the-theorist. His Thing with Jung is surprisingly touching, in a totally fucked-up way.

Jung was molested as a child by a man he trusted, and wrote to Freud that because of that, he was alarmed by the erotic overtones of his own mentor-protegee crush on Freud. In turn, Freud wrote him all these letters displaying remarkable intimacy, honesty, and total over-investedness in their relationship, complete with "I am very hurt that you failed to meet me at the airport."

From: [identity profile] kore-on-lj.livejournal.com


ung was molested as a child by a man he trusted, and wrote to Freud that because of that, he was alarmed by the erotic overtones of his own mentor-protegee crush on Freud.

YIKES, I didn't know that at all. DD: Poor Jung.

In turn, Freud wrote him all these letters displaying remarkable intimacy, honesty, and total over-investedness in their relationship, complete with "I am very hurt that you failed to meet me at the airport."

//facedesk

I almost want you to see that terrible A Dangerous Method Cronenberg movie because the resulting post would be comedy gold, but it sounds just terrible (Viggo Mortensen as Freud! Michael Fassbender as Jung! Keira Knightley as Sabina Spielrein! Who the fuck cast this thing?).

From: [identity profile] wordsofastory.livejournal.com


"I am very hurt that you failed to meet me at the airport."

Ha, that is amazing! You are learning the most interesting things.

From: [identity profile] marzipan-pig.livejournal.com


I am perhaps over-invested in my relationships myself, as I would be very hurt if someone did not meet me at the airport!
ext_3319: Goth girl outfit (Default)

From: [identity profile] rikibeth.livejournal.com


Sadly, Jung carrying Freud to a couch is not NEARLY as attractive a picture as Ioan Gruffudd carrying a passed-out Jamie Bamber in his arms looking for medical attention.

In the pouring rain.

With his shirt pasted to his body.

(Horatio/Archie OTP! Who needs these bearded Austrians?)

ETA: Okay, if they get the Historical Beauty Upgrade to be Viggo & Michael Fassbender, they're in the running, but they still won't be as sweet as CHARACTERS as Horatio and Archie.
Edited Date: 2011-10-20 02:18 am (UTC)
ext_3319: Goth girl outfit (Default)

From: [identity profile] rikibeth.livejournal.com


The Horatio Hornblower movies, installment 3, "The Duchess & The Devil."

Netflix is remarkably bad about hooking people up with this, but you might check your public library. Of course, if you feel like spending the money, the boxed set of all 8 Hornblower movies is an excellent investment. I don't regret buying them at all -- they are pure crack to me, what with the tall ships, and the Napoleonic-era uniforms, and the deliciously handsome young men, and the Awesome British Actor Camp factor of the older actors.

The camera has this terrible habit of cutting away any time Horatio and Archie are going to kiss, but anyone with eyes can see that they are TOTALLY about to. ;-)
ext_3319: Goth girl outfit (Default)

From: [identity profile] rikibeth.livejournal.com


And then you can do Fictional Character Diagnoses on Horatio's depressive stuff and Archie's PTSD!

(And read my fic, if you want to. Seriously. The source material is pure candy coated crack with angst.)

From: [identity profile] vonniek.livejournal.com


You can probably expect a blossoming of a tidy little Freud/Jung fandom once that David Cronenberg flick with Viggo Mortensen as Freud and Michael Fassbender as Jung comes out. (Plus Keira Knightly as Sabrina Spielrein.) Of course this being Cronenberg, I expect the movie to be interesting and super-problematic.


From: [identity profile] rachelmanija.livejournal.com


Of course there will be. ;) I hope Cronenberg doesn't leave out the fainting and the tender couch-carrying.

Of course this being Cronenberg, I expect the movie to be interesting and super-problematic.

Appropriate, though: the actual history is also interesting and super-problematic!

From: [identity profile] lady-ganesh.livejournal.com


I'm really hoping for fainting now! Fassbender's certainly no stranger to homoerotic subtext, either.

From: [identity profile] badnoodles.livejournal.com


I was going to comment along the lines of "And everyone who saw X-Men: First Class can testify to it." But hen I thought about it a little more and decided that the intense homoeroticism in that film didn't actually count as /sub/text.

From: [identity profile] gaudior.livejournal.com


Here you go.

(Though I admit, I would love to see it done seriously.)

From: [identity profile] writingpathways.livejournal.com



That is all very interesting, indeed. Also, through all that I so picturing Fraiser and Niles.
ext_14419: the mouse that wants Arthur's brain (Default)

From: [identity profile] derien.livejournal.com


Robert King suggests, Twice placing Freud on a couch after a faint was consistent with Jung's wish to be Freud's analyst as well his analysand.

That seems like stretching it a bit. I mean, where does one normally put someone who's fainted? I suppose in these day of well heated houses with well cleaned carpets you might leave them on the floor, but a handy couch seems like it would have been a better alternative back in the day.

From: [identity profile] fiveandfour.livejournal.com


Posts like these would be why I'd like to be included in the psych filter when you get it going.

It's long been my opinion, based on very little evidence and lots of wild surmises and speculations, that Freud was Jung's bitch and it was only a matter of time until the wider world recognized that as fact.

Jung carrying Freud after fainting: how utterly delightful to find there may be some proofs to back up my fantasies after all.

From: [identity profile] juliansinger.livejournal.com


Freud was, uh, not the most stable of people. This post makes me grin in delight, yes indeed.

From: [identity profile] wyrdness.livejournal.com


I don't know about fic, but this sounds like it should be a Hark! A vagrant comic.
.

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