I absolutely don't have time for this so don't get your expectations up...

[rachelmanija]

But can someone help me out with some Hawkeye/Black Widow resources?

Movie spoilers.



1. Is there a transcript anywhere of their conversation when he wakes up post-brainwashing?

2. Does anyone recall what is implied about what it felt like to be brainwashed by Loki? The scientist guy talked about it, but I forget the details.

3. What is comic canon for how much Clint knows about Natasha's time in the Red Room? Like, does he know that it happened but not the details? Or does he know details? Or not even know what it was?

Comments

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

I absolutely don't have time for this so don't get your expectations up...

Too late. :-D

(I have been reading Blackhawk fic, but none of it has really quite scratched the itch yet for me. Problem is, I want somebody else to write the stories I'm looking for; I don't want to write them myself. I've made some requests (http://swan-tower.livejournal.com/533655.html) in a fanfic exchange, but who knows if I'll get what I'm looking for there.)

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

Blackhawk is probably the only pairing name that I could actually get behind. I mean in any other way than hilarity. (Spuffy! Snarry! Peeniss!)

I was thinking of something like this: "Or it could revolve around Clint being mind-controlled; Natasha was playing Loki in that conversation, but did the things he said hurt her? And how do the two of them deal with the aftermath?"

But with added comic canon that Natasha was brainwashed herself as a child. Not detailed comic canon, just that idea.

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

Yeah, most smashnames just make me roll my eyes. But Blackhawk is good, and I'm weirdly entertained by Pepperony. <g> (Though not at all interested in the ship itself. See: not a shipper. Except, apparently, for Hawkeye/Black Widow.)

I've been reading a lot of aftermath fics (which I found after making that request), but like I said, none of them have quite scratched the itch yet; they're falling too much into categories of fanfic I'm not interested in, like smut (lust isn't what interests me in in that relationship) or 100% interiority, without enough of a frame to make it solid for me.

I also have a horrible, horrible desire for an alternate version where Hawkeye takes her prisoner, rather than vice versa, and Loki follows through on his threat. Not to the extent of them both dying, but showing just what it is Natasha fears (not rape; that's too obvious and too easy), and then her having to keep it together through the fear to manipulate and deprogram Clint before he can kill her. But that would be extremely difficult to write well.

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

Ooh, I would love to read that!

I don't think her fear is rape either. I think "intimate" isn't in a sexual sense, but emotional. I took as betrayal by a person she actually trusts, in a moment in which she genuinely trusts him. To really twist the knife, I think she'd have to believe that he betrayed her of his own free will, not because he was brainwashed and forced into it. No idea how Loki intended to manage that one.

[tool-of-satan.livejournal.com]

No idea how Loki intended to manage that one.

Loki isn't as clever as he thinks he is.

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

I think that's part of it, but I also think there must be more. Some specific fear she has, that pretty much only Barton (and now Loki) knows about.

But yeah, the "free will betrayal" part is hard to arrange.

[arielstarshadow.livejournal.com]

Unless she did something in her past life - something that Loki somehow discovered - that would make Clint turn against her if he found out.

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

But it raises the question of how Loki would have discovered it (other than via Clint). And furthermore, he'd have to unbrainwash Clint first, which undermines the whole plan.

[arielstarshadow.livejournal.com]

My understanding from that particular speech is that it was something that would happen much later - it had nothing to do with the current "plan."

As for how he would have discovered it? Loki's gifts are cunning, wit, and trickery - how did he get the jotuns into Asgard? I don't think it would be very difficult at all for him to sniff out someone's secrets, if he wished to know them. I do not think Clint was his only source for information.