Someone refresh my memory, since it's been so long since I read the volumes where he was introduced: What exactly does Orochimaru want? Do we know what he has against Konoha? Also, is he one of the legendary three ninjas, along with Jiraiya and Tsunade, or is Kakashi the third?

When the chuunin exams devolved into "OMG! Orochimaru and his resurrected and non-resurrected ninjas are attacking Konoha! Everyone run to defend it!" I expected there to be a massive battle involving everyone we've met so far, but that... didn't happen. I was a little disappointed. Also, I was not terribly invested in the Third Hokage, so his death didn't have a big impact on me. (The flashback to Kid! Iruka crying over the grave of his parents did.) Loved the flashbacks to Jiraiya and his crew as baby ninjas, though.

I was very pleased with the introduction of Tsunade, since this manga needs more kick-ass kunoichi, and that she became the Fifth Hokage. As for her giant slug... that was very strange. As was the most bizarre jutsu yet, Jiraiya teleporting people into the esophagus of his giant frog. Ew.

All the same, much as I like Naruto, Jiraiya, and Tsunade, I missed the rest of the old crew in this arc. I'm hoping the next arc will get back to them.

No sign yet of Gaara or the other Sand Village ninjas.

Jiraiya is a much better teacher than Kakashi.

Finally, if I had Uchiha Itachi as an older brother, I would probably have a chip on my shoulder too.

From: [identity profile] telophase.livejournal.com


I have absolutely nothing useful to add, other than: keep reading, since you're meant to be asking most of those questions.

Now that you've met Tsunade, you can go look at my Jiraiya/Tsunade fanart (http://www.deviantart.com/view/7065127/). :D

And the two HP/ (http://www.deviantart.com/view/7286542/)Naruto (http://www.deviantart.com/view/8297103/) crossover fanarts based off of a story by [livejournal.com profile] chibipoe.

And, oh yeah, my leetle Naruto/Iruka picture (http://www.deviantart.com/view/6669552/).

Orochimaru, Jiraiya, and Tsunade are based on Japanese folk legends, hence the snake/frog/slug things, which seem a little weird otherwise.

And [livejournal.com profile] croaky does some really nice Jiraiya fanart on her DA gallery (http://croaky.deviantart.com/gallery/), although you'll have to page back once, since her recent stuff is mostly original.

From: [identity profile] rachelmanija.livejournal.com


Thanks! That picture of Iruka and Baby Naruto is so sweet, and the expression on Jiraiya's face cracks me up.
octopedingenue: (gaara and kankuro are brothers)

From: [personal profile] octopedingenue


It has been even longer for me than you re-reading the early Orochimaru bits, but I think it went something like this:
Konoha: "Tra la la, stay and be a happy fluffy family ninja!"
Orochimaru: "No! I want powah!"
Konoha: "True power comes from love and friendship and hugging and ninja team orgies!"
Orochimaru: "HA HA SUCKERS I SCORN YOU AND YOUR CARE BEAR NINJADOM I'M GOING OFF TO GET IN TOUCH WITH MY INNER SNAKE."
Tsunade: "Everyone I love is dead or evil. I will go drown my bitterness in booze and gambling."
Jiraiya: "And I'll write porn!"
Tsunade: "Correction: everyone I love is dead or evil or a smut fiend."

...okay, maybe not exactly like that.

Jiraiya, Orochimaru, and Tsunade are the three legendary ninja; they (and the slug thing) come from the Jiraiya stories of the 1800s.

The Sand nin show up when you least expect it! Sneaky like ninja! Or something! And you might already know this but I wasn't sure from your wording in the other post: the Sand Trio are siblings, with Temari the oldest, Kankuro the middle, and Gaara the youngest.

I wonder if they're ever going to let Kakashi teach newbies again.

There will be deep satisfaction in my life someday when Sasuke gets to kick Itachi in the face. With steel-toed ninja boots.

From: [identity profile] apintrix.livejournal.com


>Jiraiya, Orochimaru, and Tsunade are the three legendary ninja; they (and the slug thing) come from the Jiraiya stories of the 1800s.

...holy shit! That rocks!

From: [identity profile] rachelmanija.livejournal.com


Re: Orochimaru: That makes a lot of sense.

It is so cool that they are all real-- well, real legendary-- characters! Like in Saiyuki! Though I am still boggled at the "snail magic."

Ah, no, I didn't know the Sand ninjas were siblings, but I had figured out that they had some kind of old and close relationship. Very interesting. I wonder how Gaara ended up being the one who got stuck with the demon, and why, when he had older siblings who clearly care about him, he ended up so totally fucked up. [livejournal.com profile] telophase implied that Naruto might have turned out similarly if Iruka hadn't been there for him, but I would think that at least Temari could have served the same function. (Don't answer that, I'm sure All Will Be Revealed. Eventually.

...it's up to thirty volumes and Sasuke still hasn't beat up Itachi?!
octopedingenue: (gaara and kankuro are brothers)

From: [personal profile] octopedingenue


I know! I think every series should have hyperkinetically skewed versions of previous fictional characters! It makes things more exciting somehow!

Although Gaara's sibling's care about him, they're clearly also terrified of him. All three of them are the children of the Kazekage (the Sand Village version of the Hokage).

MWAHAHAHAHAHA not telling. (Oh Iruka. I love you so.)

He hasn't gotten to kick him in the face! (This specific act I wish to see.) Oh dear God it's up to 30 volumes? Just warning: this series is going to go on longer than "Dragonball Z". JUST SO YOU KNOW.

Here, you might enjoy this: height charts!

From: [identity profile] rachelmanija.livejournal.com


Aww! Baby ninja all in a line!

Today I sent the long-suffering Tokyopop artist a height chart for Flowers with Flowers. Excerpt:

Elena: 5' 3". Classic girlish figure-- slim legs, small waist, smallish but perky breasts. (You already nailed this.)

Holly: 6' 0". Amazonian figure-- legs that go forever, voluptuous hips and breasts. Don't be afraid to give her a butt, too. (I am now having a Sir Mix-a-lot flashback: "LA face with the Oakland booty!")


In retrospect, perhaps "nailed" was not the best choice of words.

From: [identity profile] rachelmanija.livejournal.com


I think every series should have hyperkinetically skewed versions of previous fictional characters! It makes things more exciting somehow!

You are going to love Flowers with Flowers, if it ever gets made. Not only are there hyperkinetically skewed versions of and references to the play-within-the-manga, A Midsummer Night's Dream, but there are strange versions of assorted other fairytale themes and characters. Such as the Faerie Queen as an evil pimp.
octopedingenue: (reach out and touch faith)

From: [personal profile] octopedingenue


why, when he had older siblings who clearly care about him, he ended up so totally fucked up.

......wait, I thought, um. Chapters 130-131, I think? I thought they were fairly explanatory in terms of trauma!
octopedingenue: (gaara's teddy will EAT YOUR SOUL)

From: [personal profile] octopedingenue


Nope, chapters 129-131. FEAR THE TEDDY. And the baby Gaara tears. I really think that what happened to him them fucked with his head so badly (and what he did scared everyone else so badly) that everyone around him was too terrified to even try to get close to him, including his siblings.

And for the record, my Gaara/Naruto song = totally Personal Jesus. (Naruto/People To Protect & Save With Asskicking = OTP!)

From: [identity profile] rachelmanija.livejournal.com


I am so glad you said something! I thought, "Gaara with a teddy bear? I am certain I would have remembered that." So I double-checked those chapters, and discovered that they had failed to download, and so I had gone straight from part-way through the big fight to where the big fight resumed while missing all the sad sad angsty tragic backstory!

It all makes a lot more sense now.
octopedingenue: (reach out and touch faith)

From: [personal profile] octopedingenue


It all makes a lot more sense now.

Yes it does! Heeeee! I LOATHED Gaara before those chapters, and they still made me cry. So reading your response I was all, "....you didn't find what happened to Gaara significant or affecting at all?!"

The entire fight broke my heart. Even as Naruto's threatening to kill Gaara if Gaara hurts Naruto's friends, Naruto's still probably the first person to understand how lonely Gaara's been and to cry for him. And Gaara realizes it.

One of the major themes running through "Naruto" is how lonely all of the characters are in their individual ways, and how loneliness affects people in different ways, and how they reach out from that loneliness. One of the reasons I adore Naruto as a character so much is that he's a main character who (unlike many notable action hero main character types) will never, ever take his friends for granted.

From: [identity profile] rachelmanija.livejournal.com


Let's just say that Naruto's conversation with him was ever so much more poignant when I had more details than what I'd extrapolated from "Asshole father stuck him with a sand demon."

Also, since I had terrible insomnia for a number of years before I discovered exercise, that thing about not being able to sleep because the demon eats your personality if you do really freaked me out. No shit that would make you "unstable."

There's a tiny little scene, after Naruto comes back with Tsunade, when he and Iruka are eating ramen at their usual joint and Naruto, with his mouth full of ramen, is saying something like, "And then I used my new improved jutsu, and all the bad guys went flying!" and Iruka gives him this look like, "You are such a dork and I love you so much." It was just the sweetest thing ever.
octopedingenue: (iruka : daddy is a verb)

From: [personal profile] octopedingenue


Ahahaha, true. And I just want to slowly peel the living skin off his uncle (yes, it's an uncle. I totally thought he was an aunt/girl until someone was like "blah blah Gaara's uncle" and I was like "WHAT?"), who is a bastard. If he'd had a shred of human decency he would've just died trying to blow up Gaara without ever saying a word so Gaara could draw his own (inevitably kinder) conclusions about the attack, instead of going, "Not only I have I lied to you for your entire life about you being the most important and beloved person in the world to me and your mother, I've actually always hated you, and your mother hated you before you were born and died hating you and cursing the world with your presence as a symbol of how much she hated you and hated the world for making you exist, and your family hates you, and your father especially hates you and wants to kill you, and everyone in the world hates you and always has and always will, especially me, and this is entirely your fault because you are inherently an unlovable monster." And Gaara is what, five years old? Maybe six years? And a surprisingly sweet kid, despite already starting to crack under the strain, and who responded well to understanding and patience. Which are helpful to use when dealing with any five-year-old child.

Yes. Skin-peeling.

And that ties into the point that [livejournal.com profile] telophase made, that I agree with, that the people of Konoha owe Iruka their lives, because Naruto could've become Gaara and worse in the first chapter of the series if Iruka hadn't believed in him. Iruka is the ninja of love! (There is a lot of fanfic with Gaara randomly moving to Konoha so Iruka can informally adopt him too, to which I am like "...no", but I understand the sentiment, because Gaara so clearly needs someone to hug him and feed him ramen and tell him everything will be okay.)

I love that scene so much. He has to go brag to his daddy! And even now Naruto has more power than Iruka ever will, but Iruka's just so proud of him. I have a folder with chapter pages in it called "Iruka Is Naruto's Daddy" and the fact that it has a good number of pages in it makes me happy. Like the scene from the chuunin exams, when Iruka comes to tell the team they've passed the first run, and Sakura and Sasuke are exhausted while Naruto's bouncing around squeeing, and Iruka gives him the look of "You are such a dork and I love you so much. Do you want to keep your last name when I adopt you? The mongrammed towels will be the same if we spell them with romaji."

From: [identity profile] rachelmanija.livejournal.com


...that was a man?! I totally thought it was his aunt!

I know, what a total bastard. He should have said, "They're afraid of your power," which was obvious to poor little Baby Gaara already, and died with his mouth zipped about the rest of it. And I had been thinking up until that point, "But Gaara did have his own Iruka... huh... guess his aunt is about to die tragically and leave him alone and bitter." And it was so much worse than that. In fact, that is the worst thing you can possibly tell a child.

It reminded me of the time when my mother, who I later found out was going through menopause and was temporarily insane (in case you've read my book, by that I mean "more than usual"), got in a huge argument with me over where we had left the car and ended up saying, "This is why you have no friends." Luckily at that point I was about twenty-five, and so responded by saying, in a very mature manner, "I do too! I have lots of friends!" rather than by becoming a psycho killer. To which, incidentally, she replied, "I find that hard to believe." Yeah, large parts of my past really do resemble that of the typical manga hero.

Well, I do think that Gaara had an additional disadvantage that Naruto didn't, which is that his demon was much less tightly bound or more evil or something than Naruto's, but yeah, Naruto definitely could have easily gone really, really wrong. And Gaara would surely have turned out much better if that utter bastard of an uncle (I am still having trouble wrapping my mind around the gender, but whatever) had actually cared about him, or at least kept his mouth shut.

"Do you want to keep your last name when I adopt you? The mongrammed towels will be the same if we spell them with romaji."

Ah-ha-ha-ha! So true!

I also love that in a series that's all about power and fighting and who's got better jutsu... it really isn't all about power and fighting and who's got better jutsu.

From: [identity profile] rachelmanija.livejournal.com

PS


Have now read farther. Will put details in another post because if anyone reads this later, it's spoilery for later events, but I have to say right now: "Sasuke, you MORON!"

From: [identity profile] rachelmanija.livejournal.com

Re: PS


I mean, even apart from the moral and ethical issues, how can he possibly think that, regardless of the fringe benefits, becoming [spoiler]'s [spoiler] is in any way likely to help him achieve his goals? Nitwit.
octopedingenue: (sasuke is a GIANT DORK)

From: [personal profile] octopedingenue

Re: PS


Sasuke is my adopted nephew and I adore him, but? His logic is apparently special ninja logic. Sometimes he just needs someone to kick him in the face and feed him ramen and tell him everything will be okay. And kick him in the face some more.

The chapter with Sakura was lovely, though.

I hope you like this arc (I did), because you're going to be in it a while. I mean. Like. Years. So get comfortable!

From: [identity profile] rachelmanija.livejournal.com

Re: PS


I am liking it very much! I thought it could not possibly get better than when [spoiler] showed up, and then [spoilers! eeee!] showed up and I almost died from joy.

From: [identity profile] rachelmanija.livejournal.com

Re: PS


Posts crossed! I just posted on that very subject.

PS. I went looking for an Iruka and Naruto icon and found this one-- is that OK?

PPS. How do you do white space?
octopedingenue: (iruka : daddy is a verb)

From: [personal profile] octopedingenue

Re: PS


[font color=white]white text here[/font]

with the [ ]s replaced by the less than/greater than signs.

From: [identity profile] rachelmanija.livejournal.com


Hey, if you ever need to procrastinate on some important project with a deadline feel like it, an icon of Baby Gaara with the tag "children will listen" would totally make my day. And I could promise to write more fanfic to add to the stack of fanfic I've already promised but haven't yet written.

I don't know or don't remember if you're a Sondheim fan, but that's from Into the Woods.
octopedingenue: (reach out and touch faith)

From: [personal profile] octopedingenue


I love "Into the Woods", and that song is perfect. Feel free to use any of my icons that I've put up for grabs! (Here's a special Sasuke icon, just for kicks.) That Naruto & Iruka picture is adorable.



Will either of these work?


Also, I don't know if I sent this Naruto anime AMV to you with your DVDs or not, so I'm uploading it because it's not available online anymore. And it makes my heart hurt.

Elliott Smith - Happiness

what I used to be
will pass away and then you'll see
that all I want know
is happiness for you and me
.

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