Based on both recommendations and easy availability, I have obtained Space Cadet, Time for the Stars, Have Space Suit - Will Travel, The Door Into Summer, Podkayne of Mars, and Tunnel in the Sky.

I read Tunnel in the Sky, which I generally enjoyed and will report on individually, and three pages of Podkayne of Mars, which was all I could get through before I was overcome with the urge to vomit and/or hurl the book across the room. Those pages consist of 15-year-old Podkayne talking about being a giiiiiirl and going on about how pretty she is and giving her exact measurements and how she's smart enough to not reveal that she's smart because why would any giiiiiirl want to do things herself when she can bat her eyelashes at a man twice her age and have him do things for her? ICK ICK EW. Also, written in a rather twee style. I hate twee.

If it was about her learning better I'd keep reading, but I recall from the last time I read it that she gets blown up because she goes back to a house where she knows there's a bomb to rescue a cute alien kitten, and then her uncle lectures her mom over her comatose body about how it's all her mom's fault for having a career. (Flips to end.) "A woman has more important work to do." Barf. Nix on Podkayne.

Podkayne of Mars

Though I may change my mind after I've read more, my preliminary reading of one book and three pages of another suggests a theory on why people get so outraged over sexism in Heinlein's work, as opposed to getting outraged over sexism in the work of other male sf writers of the same time - especially when, as Heinlein's defenders argue, Heinlein actually has more interesting/badass/competent women than the others.

It's due to bait-and-switch. Because his women are more badass/competent/etc, the female or sympathetic male reader thinks, "Hey! Badass female soldier! Awesome!" Then, two pages later, the badass female soldier says, "Oh, I have no interest in the military at all! I'm only doing this because men outnumber women in outer space, so out there I can get a man and have lots of babies! I don't care of he's a total jerk and hideous, all that matters is that he's male. Oh to be pregnant!"

At that point, the reader is much more likely to be surprised and irate, their expectations having been unpleasantly thwarted, than if, as many other writers of the time did, no non-stereotypically feminine characters had been introduced at all.

As Jo Walton and others mentioned over at the Tor discussion, Heinlein has a trick of sounding extremely authoritative, in a manner which either seduces you into wanting to measure up to his rather eccentric requirements for true manliness/womanliness/awesomess, or else makes you instantly begin deconstructing them in your head. Or both at once. Again, this is unlike other authors of his time whom I've read, who were less concerned with what makes a Proper Man or whose opinions were not presented in such a compelling and forceful manner.

For instance, though I had to look this up as it's not in one of the ones I read, "Specialization is for insects." I'm sure not everyone has this reaction, but I bet I'm not the only person who reads that and instantly, defensively thinks, "I can do lots of stuff!" and then, "Tell that to a cardiac surgeon."

ETA: Complete quote: A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

This is being discussed in the DW comments.

Link to edition I'm reading, with strangely-proportioned hero: Tunnel in the Sky
polarisnorth: a silhouetted figure sitting on the moon, watching the earthrise (Default)

From: [personal profile] polarisnorth


I really want to read the Door Into series, but my library for some reason doesn't have all three, just the last two.

From: [identity profile] tool-of-satan.livejournal.com


I think you're thinking of Diane Duane's books. I haven't read them but am willing to bet they are very different from Heinlein.
ithiliana: (Default)

From: [personal profile] ithiliana


They are, oh they are.

Heinlein did have a time travel one, I think, Door Into Summer, but that's different.
jonquil: (Default)

From: [personal profile] jonquil


OHMYGODYES. Heinlein polyamory meets Duane polyamory -- "But why are you talking about it so much? And what's so great about nipples?"
Edited (typo) Date: 2010-08-20 07:27 pm (UTC)
jonquil: (Default)

From: [personal profile] jonquil


"I can't help noticing that none of the males in your 'line marriage' seem to share one another; you know, the Goddess approves of love in all forms."
ithiliana: (Default)

From: [personal profile] ithiliana


Oh, and "if you think you're so macho, Lazarus Long, how about you tame this fire elemental here and then have SEX with him...her...him...her...etc."

SNORTS

dduane: DD's avatar (Default)

From: [personal profile] dduane


:) ... I think this is a moment when I can safely mention that Heinlein was probably one of the first readers of The Door Into Fire (I'd been in touch with him, as the closeness of titles was on my mind and I wanted to make sure it was OK with him) -- and he really, really, really liked that book.

I have his fan letter still. It gives me the blushes to read it. Some bits of it would make the best front-cover blurb ever... but I just can't use it, as he really hated having his private correspondence quoted. Oh well.
dduane: DD's avatar (Default)

From: [personal profile] dduane


:) It is.

Though sometimes I have to be careful how I read it. In one spot in the letter he takes me to task for (spoiler-censoring here) taking so long in the last chapter to reveal what was really going on with a certain character. Other people have occasionally taken me to task for treating other characters similarly in other books... and at such times, and the temptation to take out the letter and reread it, and then go away thinking, "Haha, you guys can make all the noise you like but HE said it was okay!" can be considerable. ;)
ithiliana: (Default)

From: [personal profile] ithiliana


I'm glad to hear it.

He was very sweet at a 1977 Star Trek conference I attended -- had a blood drive, of course, but he also let me win the bidding for a signed Ellison book.

None of that has any effect on the impact of his books and characters (I really came to loathe Lazarus Long over the years), and those of us who became increasingly disappointed by the gender issues in his work.

It is about the texts, not the authors as people, something that it's difficult for many to keep in mind. Here's my post about my reading relationship with Heinlein's work:

http://ithiliana.livejournal.com/1396501.html

And I'd still rather spend time with Herewiss than with any of Heinlein's male characters, most of his female characters (the only one I still have any fondness for is Mike the Computer in MOON)>

dduane: DD's avatar (Default)

From: [personal profile] dduane


I read your post, and it's a good one.

I came to Heinlein early (Starship Troopers at eight or nine, I think: an interesting juxtaposition it made with all the Andre Norton I was reading) and read him still, though not for a whole packet of years now with the unwavering suspension-of-(critical)-belief that I used to. For example, I love 'The Number of the Beast' for some things, and nonetheless want to bitchslap the whole damn bunch of them when their arguments start interfering with their ability to stay alive (or when they simply get on my nerves). And as for Lazarus Long, nngh... I sometimes wonder if RAH may have found himself stuck with a character he'd given a little too much wonderfulness-mojo, and now felt unwilling to retcon him. Hard to say.

Yet at the same time, RAH is on my mind often when SF is at issue. My new one, Omnitopia Dawn, is a direct result of many, many rereadings of The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and here I agree with you about Mike: that last scene routinely leaves me teary-eyed.

Meanwhile, as regards Herewiss... :) I agree, he's good company: I'd forgotten how much so (but getting the ebooks into shape has been reminding me).
polarisnorth: a silhouetted figure sitting on the moon, watching the earthrise ([firefly] glee!)

From: [personal profile] polarisnorth


You have just made my upcoming cross country plane ride 1000x more bearable. I've been wanting to read these for ages! Thanks!
dduane: DD's avatar (Default)

From: [personal profile] dduane


Absolutely a pleasure! Have fun with them. :)
.

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